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MikeH
RS Meister
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At the age of 50, my brother is going through a mid-life crisis and is taking lessons to get his bike license by direct access (UK regs). I should emphasis that this is not down to me, and I've already told him about the dangers out on the road. But he's quite a sensible chap really, and has decided to go for a F650 GS as his first bike. He likes the idea of the upright style plus the 'go anywhere' capabilities of the GS.
Now I've ridden F650's a couple of times, but I know nothing about them other than the fact that they have a good record for reliability. So can any previous owners out there give me some advice on what to look for when buying one? Is there a gearbox issue (like the R series)? Are there any other mechical / technical issues to watch out for? The only bad things I've heard in passing are to do with corrosion problems on the wheels and forks. Any advice that you can give would be helpful so I can get him started on 2 wheels (20 years too late!). 
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Cheers, Mike
'97 R1100RS
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Total Posts: 639 | Joined Oct. 2001 | Posted on: 1:51 am on May 22, 2004 | IP
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rclbaker
RS Meister
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Mike,
Does your brother have any experience with bikes (in former days)?
If not: he could also seriously consider a Honda as well (CB500 or the new 600 with ABS)?
Rob
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R 1100 RS SE black silver ´00
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Total Posts: 124 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 2:36 am on May 22, 2004 | IP
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Tracus
RS Meister
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Mike,
My situation was similar to your brother's. (Not sure if it was a mid-life crisis or a second childhood for me). I'll go along with Rob's suggestion. I purchased a '91 Honda CB750 in 2000 for $2500.00. . It had just under 12K miles on it and ran beautifully. Had it for two years and added another 10K miles to it and never had a problem. I've had an F650 as a loaner and didn't feel as secure on it as I did on the CB750. I traded the Honda in on the RS and got $2000 on the trade. Since this is your brother's first bike, I'm inclined to consider dollars and value first since your brother will most likely gain some experience and then make a decision on what bike he really wants. IMHO I think the F650 is a bit overpriced and the depreciation not worth the investment.
Chris
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Travelling Circus
New Cumberland, PA
'02 R1150RS Pacific Blue
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Total Posts: 112 | Joined June 2003 | Posted on: 3:46 am on May 22, 2004 | IP
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MikeT
RS Fahrer
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Mike,
If you can get a hold of a copy of the May 2004 BIKE magazine, their Buyers Guide ( 6 pages at the back) is dedicated to all BMW F650s (93-02), If you can't get a copy easily , message me your address and I can drop my copy in the post to you ( the wife is always asking me to throw out some copies anyway !). Having read the article apparently the biggest risk is associated with The F650 carrying its oil in the frame, apparently it can get hot enough to melt the grease around the steering head bearings, as they say with "predictably dire consequences"
Otherwise looks like a great bike though, If I could afford would love to have one in addition to ny RS ,
Mike
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2003 Red R1100RS
2002 Silver 316Ti
Cork, Ireland.
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Total Posts: 85 | Joined Mar. 2004 | Posted on: 12:22 pm on May 22, 2004 | IP
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MikeH
RS Meister
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Thanks folks. I've advised him to look at other bikes as well, but he has his heart set on the F650 GS even though he's never ridden one! I guess it's his dream bike, so who am I to stand in his way. Thanks Mike, I'll try and get hold of BIKE mag.
Any other comments on the F650 GS would be most welcome.
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Cheers, Mike
'97 R1100RS
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Total Posts: 639 | Joined Oct. 2001 | Posted on: 4:05 pm on May 22, 2004 | IP
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no5s
RS Fan
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Mike, the F650gs is a wonderful starter bike. I recently traded mine for an R1100RS. The bike is easy to ride and maintain without many of the gremlins of the RRS. It is not a good two up highway cruiser, it will do it but at 80mph it sounds a little stressed. In warm weather your left knee will get warm due to the location of the oil tank. Look for a late model used bike with ABS and low miles. They sell for half the price of new and are fairly bulletproof.
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Doug
94 R1100RS
Montesa 315 R
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Total Posts: 11 | Joined Feb. 2004 | Posted on: 6:12 am on May 23, 2004 | IP
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philippos
Newbie
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Mike, the F650 was my first bike and I never had problems. It was reliable, low maintenance and easy in city traffic. Very poor on a motrway though.
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Total Posts: 3 | Joined Aug. 2003 | Posted on: 7:43 am on May 23, 2004 | IP
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rkd
RS Meister
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Quote: from MikeT on 3:22 pm on May 22, 2004
Having read the article apparently the biggest risk is associated with The F650 carrying its oil in the frame, apparently it can get hot enough to melt the grease around the steering head bearings, as they say with "predictably dire consequences"
Just to specify, I think this is not the case on the current GS/CS design, as the oil is stored in a reservoir within the faux tank (dry sump engine).
As a current owner I agree pretty much with everything that has been said:
It's overpriced but the ABS makes up for a part of that (till recently).
It's economical to run - mine turns 60-70 MPG even pushed hard and maintenance (tires, oil etc) is relatively inexpensive.
It's crowded 2-up - expect some helmet tapping.
It's kinda noisy (high exhaust and knobby tires).
Some of the EFI model surge, but there seems to be much better fixes available (BMW engine control software updates, alternate spark plug  ).
Spare electrical output can run a vest (power-sucking Gerbing in my case).
Shim-type valve systems are often pretty stable - if you have ABS there is a bit of a clearance issue to work out when changing shims.
Much more information can be had at the Chain Gan forum & website.
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Ray Downes - '03 F650GS
Mostly bike stuff
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Total Posts: 316 | Joined Oct. 2001 | Posted on: 9:01 am on May 23, 2004 | IP
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Hartill
Newbie
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I have ridden F650's as loaners a few times when my RS has been in for service. They seem to be stable and well balanced so a GS with the wide handlebars should make a good starter bike. I do not care for the heat coming from the radiator in traffic on hot days, but that should not be a problem in your location. On the plus side, the radiator and electric fan do an excellent job of keeping the engine cool.
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Gerry Hartill
2002 R1150RS
1982 Yamaha Seca 650
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Total Posts: 2 | Joined May 2004 | Posted on: 8:33 pm on May 23, 2004 | IP
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Terry
RS Meister
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Mike,
I came to the RS from an F650GS.
There were surging/stalling problems with the earlier software on the first injected bikes - very un-nerving but I believe they're sorted now.
Otherwise a terrific bike - not so good for 200 mile round trip motorway commutes (which is why I went back to a bigger boxer) but outstanding in town.
One downside of being a big single is that it's a chain killer (my first chain drive bike in 20 years - why,why why did I do it). I reckon the F650CS Scarver would be worth a look.
Oh yeah, without a doubt join the "Chain Gang" - a board nearly as good as this.
Finally - brothers eh !. Mine has just become "born again" although he was in his early 30's when he first rode a bike and is having another go now he's hit 40. Unfaired K100 (he used to ride a K100RT) - I haven't seen it but it comes from Phil Kingston at Euro Classics so it's bound to be a good un.
(Edited by Terry at 7:44 am on May 24, 2004)
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Terry Gibson
'93 R1100RS SE, '04 Citroen C2. London, England
http://www.tgibson.dircon.co.uk/bmw
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Total Posts: 588 | Joined Oct. 2001 | Posted on: 11:38 pm on May 23, 2004 | IP
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CaroanBill
RS Fahrer
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MikeH
See my sig - we ride F650CSs and R-RSs. I came back to riding on the CS, and my partner learned on the CS (and a Suzuki TU250). I'd heartily recommend a CS or a GS. The GS is pretty much the same bike - save chain drive and some engine differences, etc.
The motor is very, very forgiving and also very capable. Either bike is easy to ride for a learner. One caution is the steering is very quick, almost loose, at very low speed - it is possible to trip yourself up a bit. Otherwise, it really is a bike you can learn on, and keep a while. With the right rubber, I've seen F-GS keep up with anything to 70mph, as did our CSs. The GS can also have OEM panniers, screens etc - it's very versatile. We have toured on our CSs and the motor will do good work all day.
I see Terry hasd mentioned the chain - I went to the CS to avoid it, but the Cs styling isn't for everyone. As for surging etc - there is a lot on the Chaing Gang site, but remember only those with problems complain. (some have a real thing about BMW .. it pays to ignore those). One of our CS surged a bit - but by 9,000km it had all smoothed out, so the main thing with a second hand one is to get a decent test ride.
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Caroline and Bill, Sydney, Australia
R1150RS Silver, R1150RS Grey / Ivory, 2 x F650CS
R65LS, R80, K100RT, K1100LT (past)
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Total Posts: 77 | Joined Sep. 2003 | Posted on: 1:33 am on May 24, 2004 | IP
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MikeH
RS Meister
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I'd just like to thank everyone for the advice, which I'll pass on. Terry, I did suggest the Scarver because of the no maintenance belt drive etc., but my brother doesn't like the look of it. He thinks it looks like a 'toy bike' You wouldn't believe that he's only ridden a Honda CG125 up to now. 
But it sounds as though he should be OK with the GS. I think he might be a future RS owner in the making.
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Cheers, Mike
'97 R1100RS
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Total Posts: 639 | Joined Oct. 2001 | Posted on: 1:35 am on May 24, 2004 | IP
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frogwalking
RS Fan
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I understand about your brother's not liking the looks of the S Carver. I rode one through the Alps in Europe last summer. As long as I was on it, and not looking at it, it was great. Wonderful for tight curves and mountain roads. UUUUUUGLY though! Why do they do that? Thye must have hired the designer that Saab finally fired. Good Luck.
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Frogwalking
North Georgia Mountains
Blue, 2002 R1150RS
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Total Posts: 47 | Joined Oct. 2003 | Posted on: 9:53 am on May 24, 2004 | IP
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MikeT
RS Fahrer
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Quote: from rkd on 5:01 pm on May 23, 2004 Just to specify, I think this is not the case on the current GS/CS design, as the oil is stored in a reservoir within the faux tank (dry sump engine).
Apparently in the current CS at least "The rectangular-section steel unit carries oil in the main beams hence the insulating covers adjacent to the rider's legs", maybe its different on the GS ? ?
Mike
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2003 Red R1100RS
2002 Silver 316Ti
Cork, Ireland.
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Total Posts: 85 | Joined Mar. 2004 | Posted on: 2:17 pm on May 24, 2004 | IP
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rkd
RS Meister
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Right you are, Mike - looks like on the CS anyway they reverted back to the old-style oil storage method. The GS uses a separate tank as mentioned.
(Edited by rkd at 6:03 pm on May 24, 2004)
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Ray Downes - '03 F650GS
Mostly bike stuff
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Total Posts: 316 | Joined Oct. 2001 | Posted on: 3:02 pm on May 24, 2004 | IP
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CaroanBill
RS Fahrer
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RE oil in the frame on the CS - is does get warm ... nice in winter ... not so nice in sumer!
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Caroline and Bill, Sydney, Australia
R1150RS Silver, R1150RS Grey / Ivory, 2 x F650CS
R65LS, R80, K100RT, K1100LT (past)
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Total Posts: 77 | Joined Sep. 2003 | Posted on: 12:50 am on May 25, 2004 | IP
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BMW R1150RS and R1100RS
F650 GS - Advice needed
